The Knee Past the Toe – Here We Go!
Just about the time I thought the issue of the knee going past the toe was a dead issue, it keeps rearing its ugly head. It is hard to believe this is still an issue with what we understand of knee function. Approach this with an analytical mind. Start by observing movement, observe the knee in work, play and games and ask yourself the following questions:
Where does the knee go?
How does it get there?
How does it get back to where it started?
Observe how the ankle, knee and hip link and synchronize. All of these movements occur in hundreds to tenths of a second. You cannot consciously think about where the knee should go, it all happens too fast. It is all sub cortical and reflexive, not planned and programmed. This demands that training progressively load the knee in all the positions that could occur in the demands of the sport. Artificially restricting knee motion will not prevent knee injuries, in fact, you may be setting up the knee for injury.
Here is a simple mantra to guide your training involving the knee:
posted by Vern Gambetta @ 5/06/2007 09:24:00 AM
10 comments
10 Comments:
Is this knee/toe excursion nonsence rebirth driven by the obesity epidemic? If so, like Vern told me 12 years ago: IF SQUATTING HURTS, THEN DON'T SQUAT. Switch to some kind of step up or lunge that doesn't hurt, then tweak the squat back in. Or, who says a squat MUST be sagittally (is that a word?)driven anyway?
Does anyone has any information on why the knees can not go pass the toes?
Where and when did the knees can not go pass the toes originate?
For example, in a lunge, upper leg has to be parallel to the floor, knee...perpendicular...and over the ankle or toes...upper body upright and tall..etc?
Dumbazz N Confuse Newjersian
Vern & I have researched it ad nauseum. ALL the evidence is anecdotal. No scientific method here. To answer your question as to where and why the knee goes where it does, it SHOULD be subconcious, and driven by ground, gravity, momentum. What the torso, hands, head, and opposite leg is doing will influence the knee. If the knee is not going where you would expect, go look for the link that is out of sync.
Joe P & Mr Gambetta,
In the article Misuse of Strength development programs by Jessie on Vern's website, pg48 second to last paragraph, last sentence says, "Authorities in knee injuries maintain that bending the knee beyond 90 degrees while supprting heavy weight stretches and wekens ligaments." I'm thinking that these thoughts may have contributed to the knees and toes theory. Perhaps equating knees past toes equalled stretched ligaments? Just a possibility.
Jonathan Hewitt ATC
JH
If that is the case, then stop all sports/athletic movements on the field...court...arena.
Looking at the sport of Fencing, volleyball with a dig, long jump, and many more.
Tee Cee
Hey Tee Cee, Down boy!
Just giving guidance as to where the rationale may have came from (articles like the one I discussed earlier) not saying I agreed with it.
JH
The poor knee is stuck in the middle and can't get out of it. What does it do? flexion, extension, Internal rotation,exteral rotaion add/bd?
Hey JH, Relax!
Just agreeing with you...unfortunately I have to spell it out for you.
Tee to the Cee
Tee Cee,
Sorry for the misinterpretation of your input. My apologies. Yes I do have to have things spelled out Barney (purple dinosaur) style.
JH
JH
Nothing wrong with the purple dinosaur...throwing darts at it every now and then is a good stress release.
Tee to the Cee
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